MISSION TO THE PUNKS AND GOTHS

[Fr. Greg]

I'm curious to know what you all think about the material at the URL below. About 15 years ago I visited St. Herman's Monastery in the mountains of Northern California. Fr. Seraphim Rose, of blessed memory, helped build this monastery and lived there until his untimely death in 1982. While at the monastery I met Br. Justin Martyr. He had not been at the monastery all that long. Some of the monks had been handing out material in front of a Punk music concert venue and Br. Justin (John Marler) happened to get some of this material. He hitchhiked a ride to the monastery and wound up staying there. He sensed the call to become a monk. When he was received into the monastery, he took the name Justin Martyr. When he was tonsured, he took the name John.

Fr. John wrote a book published by St. Herman's Press entitled "Youth of the Apocalypse" and also started a zine entitled "Death to the World." I used to have copies of all the initial issues, but I gave them all away. I will be buying them now, including all the newer issues, and getting a subscription.

Anyway, I believe this material is a great way to reach into the Punk, Goth subculture. The unabridged story of the Church is what these young folks are hungry for, and it is the story in which they need to enter as vital witnesses of. Your thoughts?

Fr. Greg

http://www.deathtotheworld.com/index2.html

http://www.deathtotheworld.com/seraphimrose/index.html

http://www.stinnocent.com/seraphim/index1.htm

http://www.amazon.com/Youth-Apocalypse-Last-True-Rebellion/dp/09386...

[Bishop Wes Nolden]

In every human heart there is a struggle known only to the soul and God.
Fr. Wes

[Fr. David]

Fr. Greg:
You mentioned some where once about a "Gothich Church" movement out on the West Coast. Is this it? Has anyone from the Anglican tradition ever tried anything like this to your knowledge? Could it be tied into the Anglican Peace and Justice fellowship in some way?

[Edward Green]

I am not really a MCA but I most certainly have a musical taste which falls in the realm of Gothic so I hope you don't mind me joining to throw a few thoughts in.

Firstly 'Goth' is as wide as 'Anglican' as a term when referring to music and subculture.

The roots of the movement were not so much about what you could describe as 'macho' rebellion, but far more about subversion and romanticism. Many of the first 'Goth' bands in the period between 1979 and 1983 were dubbed 'Positive Punk', because the message was not 'Destroy' but 'Subvert'. Gothic was as in literature (Byron, Shelley, etc) rather than marauding tribes. Or maybe architecture - if Classical or Romanesque architecture represented the starkness of late 20th century modernism then Gothic almost represents a return to medievalism, but with a post-modern critique and playfulness.

Sound familiar?

The music deals with religious themes, but frequently in a playful questioning way. The style of dress was frequently androgynous. Aesthetic and Content were seen as a whole in life, music and being, Bands such as The Cure, Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Specimen, Killing Joke and Bauhaus, would give a general feel for the music and tone (although Goth's would argue if all of these were 'really' Goth).

It will come as no surprise that I know a lot of Christian Goths in this mold. Most of them are Catholic Anglicans or Roman Catholic. Most of them would be theologically Orthodox, but socially and ethically liberal.

However the word Goth has widened since the early 80's to become a bit of a catch all for anyone who wears black and looks a bit different.

The first level of this is the 'Goth Scene'. The scene includes people of all ages and backgrounds. Thinking of half a dozen folks who I know in the scene most are in their early thirties and are professionals earning upwards of $60k a year who dress in black at work, but at the weekends really push the boat out. Their taste in music and culture will be informed by the definition above, but will be far wider than that. There is a large group of people who listen to industrial harsh dance music who are part of the scene. So Goth here is a grown up sub-culture or club. An escape from the mundanity of life for the middle class kids who grew up successful but never felt they fitted in. I know even more Christian Goths in this area.

The second level is kids. At least in the UK kids call themselves Goths even if they listen to music like Heavy Metal (Cradle of Filth, some Death& Black Metal) or Industrial Rock (Nine Inch Nails, Marilyn Manson). Some of this music I would describe as Anti-Christ, and in some ways Anti-Goth (it certainly isn't philosophical, thoughtful, positive or romantic!). Being a musical purist I struggle with this lot. Because they make a big thing of being rebellious and 'Gothic' without having any idea what the latter means. Int he UK at least most of these kids are middle class.

UK studies have recently shown that Goths have higher than average intelligence, are more likely to go to university, and find themselves in successful creative careers.

In the UK there are a number of folks working with both the 'Goth' Scene and 'Goth' Kids. For example:

http://www.thegotheucharist.org.uk/

[Fr. David]

Interesting...And..Welcome on board!

David+

[Edward Green]

Thank you. I am a Priest in the Church of England rather than a continuing Anglican, but I felt it would be good to stick my oar in this one.

If you want another take on 'Goth' then an understanding of the Jungian Shadow idea might be helpful. Goth frequently celebrates or embraces those aspects of ourselves that are not necessarily 'evil', but rather that we normally push aside and don't consider.

The culture has always been associated with death. I find the orthodox Christian understanding of death, that we celebrate with the dead in Christ and all the saints, rather than fearing the dead and what lies beyond this life to be an interesting starting point for discussion.

[Fr. David]

"With angels and archangels and all the company of heaven..." Even if the average Anglican does not realize it we are celebrating with the dead.

[Fr. Steve]

Wow, I didn't realize it went that deep. Thanks for the info. I thought it was just a phase my teenage nephew was going through.

[Fr. Greg]

Fr. Ed:

Your post here is important for us to understand the various aspects of Goth culture. This is a perfect example of what it means for each of us to build bridges of understanding and trust as we reach into various cultures within our own local cultural contexts.

Fr. Greg

[Bishop Wes Nolden]

I agree with Fr. Greg and also my fellow bishops from the U.K. (I read their comments on the referred website). Correctly done there is a great opportunity here to reach those who would not normally cross the threshold of a church.

Fr. Edward, your points on Orthodoxy are quite well made. Orthodox theology doesn't fear death because they recognize that the saints and all the company of heaven are still alive. I'm reminded of some of the Orthodox spiritual writings I've read where priests actually feel the presence of angels and the saints in the sanctuary as they celebrate the liturgy. It appears to me, and I could be quite wrong, that these people are trying to explore their concerns with spirituality and death just as all human beings do. However, they've provided a conceptual basis that includes poetry, music, literature, etc., that speaks to the heart of their concern. The reality of the risen Christ is just waiting to be presented in a way that will lead them to the next logical step in their quest.

Sorry, for the long post. Fr. Edward, please correct me if I'm missing something. The Goth culture is something I've not investigated very deeply. I'm always looking for new avenues for ministry.
Blessings,
+Wes

[Fr. Greg]

Justin!!! Wow!!! What a blessing your note is to me. Do you remember me? Indeed, it was so very long ago. Those were very different times in so many ways. I have kept up on your life a little here and there, and even ran across a couple of people in Texas we have both known. If you like, please email me at [e-mail]. I would love to catch up.

Blessings in Christ, my brother!

Fr. Greg

[Fr. Steve]

The intensity of the looks of these Orthodox monks at those sites. Sometimes I think the guy was looking through the camera, as opposed to at it.